wjb
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Post by wjb on Aug 26, 2012 22:20:54 GMT -5
In last night's Lodi race program it said that as of that day the classes that qualify were: mini am, super sr A +50. open B, open A, junkyard, and class 4. What does that mean? Are those the only classes that the winners will win anything for high point?
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kimi
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Post by kimi on Aug 27, 2012 19:02:32 GMT -5
As of 8.11.12, there had to be 40 total entries for the individual class To qualify for a high point award. As of 8.25.12 there would have to be 45 entries for the class to have earned A high point award. We work with an average of 5 per Lodi high point earning event. This is strictly an example, NOT A FACT!!!! If you are not concerned about district advancement points. You got together with other racers in or about your class and joined together It would be way more fun. I get ridicule for telling y’all this, but an example of what I mean is (EXAMPLE ONLY) Class: motorsize. There are 2 A riders, 2 B riders, and 1 C rider, in the motorsize class. The A, riders, and the B riders are eligible for district advancement points. At Lodi Cycle Bowl none of them are even eligible trophy much less a high point award. I keep saying we do not need more classes we need to make the classes we have More valuable to the racers. If those 5 racers got together and entered the: motorsize heads up class. They not only qualify for a Lodi cycle bowl high point award, but they Also qualify for a trophy in that class at each event of that count. They now do not qualify for district advancement points. This is usually a problem for youth riders after advancing from pee wee. I could care less about advancement points. Please talk to your fellow racers; we can make next season WAY more fun, And challenging. There is a possibility that you could gather up some racers for the next 2 Points earning events to make your class qualify. Only a chance. Sounds Easy, but I have been saying this for 2 seasons, racers don’t actually like Real competition ……..hope this helped…kimi….
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wjb
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Post by wjb on Aug 27, 2012 22:36:17 GMT -5
So as of now there is only going to be 5 Lodi high point winners?
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kimi
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Post by kimi on Aug 28, 2012 15:44:52 GMT -5
no, i got some help and pulled some strings. there will be 10 high point classes. the 15 peewee racers will all get a season completion award.
the classes are: mini am, 80/85/150R, junkyard, vet A +30, senior A +40, Open B, super senior A +50, Open A, and class#4 DTX.
there were a couple classes that missed by about 1 or 2 enteries.
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Post by mfowler on Aug 28, 2012 17:33:41 GMT -5
Hummm interesting, So someone can race all year win different classes and then get no recognition at the end of the season...Guess its time for riders that run multiple classes to cut back and ride only classes with multiple riders. Its not the riders fault there are not enough riders to fill the class Think that falls back on the promotion of the races so why should the riders be penalized.. Just a thought..Awards are being given in classes that it only takes a fraction of what it costs to put a full blown flat track bikes on the track...Guess its time to just run a junkyard bike and save the bucks...Just my opinion...
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wjb
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Post by wjb on Aug 28, 2012 18:19:58 GMT -5
That's disappointing. There just isn't the riders coming out to get enough to make a whole class almost anywhere in any class. The 250 and open novice classes use to be the largest classes now you can't even get enough to make a high point??? I know back in the day there were a ton of riders and winning the high point was a huge deal, you use to get those giant 6 foot trophies but times have changed so maybe it's time to change how the high point is done. There should be some recognition for the the class winners even if it is something small like a # plate saying high point winner. It's hard being a B or C rider. Half the time there isn't enough riders to get advancement points, you can't get a black plate, you can't get a high point. It's like you're the red headed step child and you'll never be able to make to the A class. JMO
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kimi
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Post by kimi on Aug 29, 2012 16:21:23 GMT -5
ok, we all agree it sucks, not having many high point classes. we are down to an average of 4 to qualify for high point awards. if that is too many, then what is a good average. 1,or 2 that just is not right. i know it seems like lodi cycle bowl is making moneyhand over fist. 2 of the last 4 races lodi cycle bowl proffited $35.00. the ambulance alone costs $185.00 an hour. if lodi does not make enough money to make it through the winter months we would haveto close the gates. so i guess y'all can cut back if it makes you feel better. it would be good for someone. no the classes, and not the sport of flat track. had there been this much action on the web site, and other web sites during the whole season. who knows interests may have been sparked. insted i got the impreson that everyone felt the class they signed up in should just naturaly grow. thats ashame. be creative. have challenge races, (adults on peeweebikes, backwards races, etc...) combine classes of simular motor sizes. give it a cool name, (junkyard). lodi cycle bowl can only provide the stage. if you are not getting district, or lodi awards, then what do you have to loose. i know you would gain fun, competition, and possible recognition.
that is enough of my nagging. i am not going to spell check this. every time i do, it disaperes. and that sucks. don't forget, the sprt of flat track motorcycle racing, need this sort of continues comunnication. how much do you want to make racing fun, and challenging?...kimi...
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wjb
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Post by wjb on Aug 29, 2012 23:21:35 GMT -5
I don't want to be negative or sound like I'm complaining about how Lodi runs the races. I love racing there and as far as money, I have no idea how much they make. I'm sure it cost a ton to throw a race and I hope they are making money hand over fist! I'll keep racing as many classes as I can afford and will support them and flat track any way I can. When I said there may need to be changes I was agreeing with you that we might not need as many classes. Maybe next year the 30 and 40 year old riders could be 1 class instead of 2 and the 50 and 60 in 1 class. I really don't know the best answer or how to get more riders in each class. It's just disappointing when you find out you might have the most points in your class but it doesn't really matter.
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kimi
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Post by kimi on Aug 30, 2012 17:07:47 GMT -5
yeah, i get it. i pitch to every women i can about racing with us girls. i even offer up a bike. all we need is 5 to have the track alone. sounds simple enough, but it is not. makes me sad too. did not mean to go off. i really am glad to have y'alls support. see you at the races. if you and your friends have a 100cc four stroke sitting around some place. dust it off and join the 100cc national. i am going to take my stock 100 out there. just to be a pain in the ass. i probbly can't make it for all the laps. it will be fun trying. ;D
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311v
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Post by 311v on Aug 30, 2012 19:39:42 GMT -5
I agree with wjb and mfowler. I completly diagree with the lack of recognition received by older riders in the C & B classes. I have been in contact with David Bickle (D36 Steward for Dirt Track)for several weeks in regards to points/advancement points with no results. The most hes told me is to run in Open C instead of Vet C if Im looking to gain advancement points. The problem is that there are as few riders in open c is there are in vet c. So my point witch he continues to overlook is that for a rider coming in to the sport at an older age there is no way to ever advance because there are few if any riders in the C and B classes and by the current rules the ones that do come in will never receive any advancement points, any district or Lodi Points no high points absolutely no recognition what so ever for even racing at all. Does anyone else think that this is unfair and a flaw in the system that needs to be addressed to allow some type of advancement points aquired regardless of class size so that you can eventually become an A rider making the A classes larger and more competitive. Based on the current setup I could race till Im 50 and never advance classes or have the chance at a high points season.
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kimi
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Post by kimi on Aug 30, 2012 23:28:43 GMT -5
dave was right, the vet C class had 6 total entries. the open C had 31 total entries, it missed by 5 entries. if you had been in the open C 5 times, that class would have gotten a lodi high point award....that is why this communicaton is so important. there is usually enough entries to get district advancement points also. maybe you would only be 49 when you got there....kimi...
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311v
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Post by 311v on Aug 30, 2012 23:49:35 GMT -5
Glad you find humor in this I do not. You think its fair for the district and LMC not to allow riders to advance regardless of how much they race and base it soley on advancement rules and regulations that where made up when dirt track was in its hay day and the track was flooded with riders. Now theres hardly enough riders to make a race and the district and LMC are doing what they can do to chase off new comers by giving them no clear path to advance in the sport or be recognized for the races they run.
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Post by mfowler on Aug 31, 2012 7:12:32 GMT -5
;)Kimi, Call me if you get a chance please after 11am though working nights..707-718-5281 Thanks Mike Fowler
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Post by oscarwobblenuts on Aug 31, 2012 13:50:06 GMT -5
It seems we're talking about 2 quite different issues, the first being class recognition/hipoints and the second being advancement points.
It would seem that we all should be able to agree that recognizing the one guy who earns the most points in a tiny little group of riders (say, for example, the 6 entries all year in the Vet C class) might make that one guy kind of happy but also does demean and reduce the award itself. If you are that one guy, you might feel the award is worth it. If you are everyone else, you know that that award means very little. The organization behind the awards has to try to keep the value of those awards high by not giving them when the number of riders falls below a set minimum.
As Kimi says- if you want to earn a hi-point award, you have to race and win in a class that has enough riders. The Vet B & C classes usually don't have many riders, but guys like us ride in those classes because (1) we don't want to ride as hard as the kids in Open B & C and (2) we like riding against riders our own age. The riders under 30 can't ride in Vet but the riders 30 and older can ride in Open. You have to decide where your priorities lie.
The other problem is advancement points and you do need to know 2 things- they've been exactly as they are for many, many years and Lodi has nothing to do with applying or changing them. I've been racing 13 years and am only a B rider, so I (and Kimi, for that matter, she only recently turned B) know your frustration, but we also know that reducing the number of points required to go from C to B to A risks putting riders who are not ready for the higher class in over their heads. You don't become a faster rider just by riding, you become a faster rider by winning or placing high enough to snag some advancement points. Again, this is not a club (whether it's Lodi, Stockton or whoever) question, but it is something that we all experience as riders.
So- we should have the problems clearly defined. What solutions do you suggest and to whom do you direct them? I'd bet a couple of bucks that Dave Bickle reads this forum so he can consider your District/advancement suggestions and the LMC will certainly read and consider your hi-point ideas. What ideas do you have?
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311v
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Post by 311v on Aug 31, 2012 15:58:41 GMT -5
First let me apologize if my previous posts came off as rude or attacking D36 or LMC but I do feel strongly on the subjects at hand and feel that the issues need to be addressed. I agree with you that giving a high point award in a tiny class such as vet c would not be right and would take away from classes that are larger and riders really had to earn those awards. But I also feel it is wrong that someone puts the time and money into racing and gets no recognition for ever racing at all. My main complaint is the advancement system and ever having the opportunity to compete in a larger class and have a shot at a high points season. There was a coment about getting in a higher class and being over your head but it's been my exsperiance that the classes are combined on the track anyways. Every race I've run in vet it always combined Vet ABC on track and I believe that's how it is for senior and super senior as well. Many times I finish in front of A&B riders on the track in heats and mains but when recorded for results I'm at the bottom of the list. My suggestion would be that riders acquire advancement points regardless of class size for example .... Rider acquires 2 advancement points per race or allotted advance points for class size which ever greater.... That way you would have some clear path to advance regardless of class size it still would take several years to advance to A and eventually it would grow the A classes making them more competive and always assuring there's enough entries for a high point season. I dont think it's fair for anybody to race for 13 years and still be a B rider. My other suggestion would be that in combined classes the results are recorded as the riders finish on the track not by class and that those results also be considered in regards to advancement and season high points. My suggestions are directed at anyone in LMC or D36 that's reads this and has the power to make a change.
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